Ep.12: Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes | Wisconsin's 45th Lieutenant Governor | Building Bridges
Today’s guest is the epitome of leadership. This week on the podcast, host Mungi Ngomane is joined by Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes. Serving as Wisconsin's 45th Lieutenant Governor, he was elected on November 8th, 2018 and is the first African American to serve as a Lieutenant Governor in Wisconsin— the second African American to ever hold statewide office. Born and raised in Milwaukee, Lt. Gov. Barnes is the son of a public-school teacher and a manufacturing assembly line worker—both union members to whom he credits with shaping his worldview. The Lieutenant Governor and Mungi discuss the importance of public service in his life, what his role entails, and what needs to change in U.S. politics. Lt. Governor Barnes also shares how his role interacts with structural racism and police violence, and how he tries to create and build bridges. Like many of us, his greatest fear for humanity is climate change, which is why his role serving as the Chair of the Governor's Task Force on Climate Change is so important to him.
Milwaukee has been described as one of the worst places to be raised Black, but Lieutenant Governor Barnes was able to see first-hand the difference that opportunity makes. Listen to this episode to hear how he uses a platform of sustainability and equity to fight for solutions that invest in opportunities and fairness for every child, person and family in Wisconsin.
Full Episode Transcript
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: This podcast is produced by The Brand is Female.
Mungi Ngomane: Hi, I'm Mungi welcome to the Everyday Ubuntu podcast.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: You are not necessarily connected with one person with a million dollars, you can be connected to a million people with $1. That is a different, more sustainable and more effective way to govern.
Mungi Ngomane: This week. My guest is Lieutenant governor of Wisconsin Mandela Barnes.
He's the first African American Lieutenant governor of Wisconsin. And if you're wondering what a Lieutenant governor does, don't worry. I asked. And yes, he is named after a very famous and beloved south African. In this episode, we spoke about his dedication to public service and the importance of providing opportunity and access to everyone.
We both agreed on the need for less money in politics and the importance of having a sense of humour. Here's our conversation.
Well, Lieutenant governor Mandela, Barnes. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm really excited to speak with you today.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Have a chance to speak with you as well.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah, I think it will be good. So, I'm going to start by asking you the question.
I ask all my guests and it's about our resumes and how they're not a full explanation of who we are. And so, what would you say is missing from your resume that people should know about you?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: One of the things that obviously never makes the resume is I had a pretty, my sense of humour.
That's the thing that will never probably make it into a resume because it's not what anybody's looking for when they're looking to employ people. Since the humour is definitely up there, I think that it's important because they're always. Difficult situations to navigate in life and personal life and professional life.
And I think that having a sense of humour helps me get through a
Mungi Ngomane: lot of that. I would say, especially being in politics, you probably need.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: You got to have it. But a lot of people don't, a lot of people just don't have personalities in general. That's one of the things that's missing.
Everybody's like always constantly putting on the actor, they're in performance mode and it kind of cheapens it cheapens the delivery
Mungi Ngomane: and also, people then take themselves too seriously. And can't admit fault and whatnot.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: People, a lot of people will take themselves too seriously and get to a point where it's their opinion is the only opinion that matters.
Or whatever's a little thing that happens in the grand scheme of everything is the most important thing. It's a whole lot to navigate. Yeah.
Mungi Ngomane: And okay. So, I obviously want to talk about how you got into politics, but first I want to ask about your name because as a South African, I realized that you have a name that is the same as a very famous politician.
So maybe you could tell us. Why your name is Mandela. Is that a weird question? Why is your name
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: at all? Not a weird question at all. And it is a name that a few people may know. I was named after Nelson Mandela. My dad decided to name me that yeah, just based on what was going on at the time and Nelson Mandela's fight to end apartheid in South Africa.
And so just recognizing the struggle that was going on there, that was so similar to many struggles here in the states at a point in time. I guess that was the legacy that my dad wanted to put forward or instilled in me to implant in, into my being so to say.
Mungi Ngomane: And so then how did you get into politics?
Was this something that you wanted to do from when you were younger or did the name?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah, I won't say that it was necessarily something I wanted to do, from a young age, growing up, having the name, everybody's always oh, you got so much to live up to. You got so much to live up to and I'm like, alright
thanks. Thanks for the burden. But being a, I guess as I got older was got involved in different organizations, different groups and was able to get in the leadership positions in those organizations, in those groups. And halfway through college, I decided that I wanted to take a more political.
More, but it wasn't necessarily politics. It was more about, public service. I was involved in student government. I was involved in a number of other campus organizations and that was important to me. And I wanted to figure out how I could continue down that road after college.
And so, politics was a likely direction. And I took a job on a campaign right after school. And the rest is history.
Mungi Ngomane: I love that. And as I was, doing some research and whatnot, you are the first African American Lieutenant, governor of Wisconsin. And I wonder, like, how does that feel? Is that something that you're proud of?
Or is it something that is, disappointing because why are we still having firsts in 20, 20 and 2021? Is it, does it feel disappointing or is it a mix of both?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: No, it's certainly proud of the fact that I wouldn't even say disappointed because Wisconsin is, as far as racial diversity is it's not really, here at Wisconsin our black population is about six and a half percent.
Our Latino population is about six and a half percent as well. So, I wouldn't say that there's a disappointment there not if you're going off not if you're purely basing it off demographics. Yeah,
Mungi Ngomane: that makes sense. And speaking about the black population, I've read that Milwaukee is one of the worst places to be raised black.
And so could you talk about your interest in public service and the need to provide opportunities for
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: people? Exactly. It's all about opportunity. A lot of historical factors are what place are the city and the state in those categories. But the thing about it is.
Prior to, whatever you want to categorize as a turning point. A lot of people look towards the mid to late eighties when crack cocaine was showing up in communities and how that led to a lot of devastation, coupled with the industrialization of cities like Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, Gary, Indiana.
These were the places that black people flock to for opportunity is why my grandparents moved up. This is where the good-paying jobs were. And this is where you saw some of the strongest black middle classes in the entire country. And so, there were a lot of things that, that, that shifted, that changed that pulled the rug under many people's feet.
And it's important for us to be forward-thinking recognizing the path and the opportunities that existed there. But also understanding that it's going to be very difficult for those days to come back. However, there are other opportunities for us along the way. We just have to be forward-thinking in our approach.
We just have to let the past and foremost, but also let the future guide us thinking about emerging industries and how we can take advantage of that, whether it's here in Wisconsin specifically in Milwaukee and making sure that opportunities are provided to the communities that have. Hurt the most when you know, decisions to ship operations, to other places impacts individuals, families, entire communities, cities, an entire state, and it gives us a bad rap.
I personally believe that better is possible. I personally believe that we can get to a place that's even better than it was before. When my granddad moved here. Yeah. It's
Mungi Ngomane: sort of that sum, a door closes, or we get, we lose something and instead of focusing on where we could be heading next, we all like to just sit and wallow and though this is no longer a possibility instead of then this now makes this other thing a possibility.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: That's the thing about it. There are so many possibilities that. We don't even know of or don't immediately think of a lot of times we have to create those possibilities. I think that there are a lot of intelligent people serious. So that's what innovation is. And I think there are a lot of intelligent people in some spaces that often go ignored.
I think. When we fail to properly resource our schools and communities, we pay the price and lack of innovation because the children that are going to these schools will be able to fully express themselves or be them be their full selves or get to a point where they can give back all that they possibly could just because they weren't able to have the access that students a few miles down the road.
Because the property values in that community are higher and their schools get funded at a different rate, providing them other opportunities for Richmond, for arts, for recreation, for sports, whatever, the, whatever the deal may be.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah, absolutely. And I. I'm maybe selfishly asking this for myself because I am very interested in the answer.
What does the role of Lieutenant governor entail? What's the day-to-day look like? And also, I know that you're, very much into the climate change efforts and could you talk about your in-state climate
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: efforts? Yeah. So, the role of Lieutenant governor varies from state to state just depends on where you are.
In Wisconsin, the role of Lieutenant governor is essentially to serve at the discretion of the governor. So, I get to lead the task force on climate change, like he just mentioned, but I'll also sit on a number of other councils and task forces as well. I get to serve as a liaison to the governor.
I get to serve as a spokesperson for the administration in many instances get to work with all of our state agencies and promoting the work that they do. And I get to be a part of that work is as well, bringing my own experiences to the table bringing my own perspective to the table.
And I think that the work that we are able to do in this position has been a little bit different than it's been in previous administrations. And honestly what it all comes down to here specifically in the state is your relationship with the governor. And I do have a great relationship with. And that sort of helps things because when you agree are on the same page and have had that comradery it makes governing a lot easier.
We bounce ideas off of each other and, we show up when it's time to show up.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. Not like what, when was it when the U S whoever used to lose, like the presidential election, still got to serve as vice president and it's I feel like we're setting people up for failure, but okay.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah. That's the way, that's the way it used to be. Here, so some states, running for Lieutenant governor, you do it completely independently. So, like you can have a governor of one party and a Lieutenant governor of a different. And that's actually not uncommon.
Mungi Ngomane: This is probably why I'm not in politics.
I thought I was going to be a diplomat. And then I realized I probably wouldn't be the best diplomat. So, I wonder, what do you think needs to change with American politics today? I know that's not like a very simple question, we've had our turmoil for years and I don't think.
Gotten out on the other side yet. So, I'm always looking for people's thoughts on where we need to go next.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: So, we some very undemocratic institutions, and I think that money and politics make our democracy less democratic. I think that there are issues around gerrymandering, which also is an unfair advantage to, to, to people that didn't earn the power that they've got.
And it totally silences the voice of the majority of people who support a different path for this country. And many people even, look at the United States Senate as an undemocratic institution and given an unfair advantage to a lot of smaller states while bills that move through that house often get stalled
with the overwhelming support of Americans. Yeah. Yeah.
Mungi Ngomane: And then the Supreme court as well. I know, they go through their session in June and make all these decisions and then we're just all we all have to sit with them.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: You got to sit with them. It's very unfortunate how the will of the people is so often disregarded
Mungi Ngomane: 100%. And I don't have the solution, but I, I think politicians, like you, are honest about the fact that there are institutions that are undemocratic, I think this is probably definitely the first step. So, I appreciate that. And I wanted to speak about politics changing in America, but also, Jacob Blake was shot in the back seven times in Wisconsin.
And I wonder, I'm guessing you have to work very closely with the police. And so, I wonder what your thoughts are in dealing with police violence, but also structural racism in your state and then the wider country.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah, we do have to work closely with him. But that doesn't mean we dismiss the facts.
That doesn't mean we dismiss the reality. Our goal is to make sure that quality of life is good for everyone in this state, it should mean that people should feel safe on the job and people should feel safe in their communities and it could be seen as a delicate balance, but just doing the right thing makes that much less delicate.
And I think that there are a lot of things that people have to come to terms with. I was in a pretty I was in an area, and I was talking to a police chief who is a Republican and, when he first he's Hey man, I just want, second to talk. And it was just like he said there are definitely some things, we need to improve on.
And there are police officers, police chiefs that, want to, but on the whole, unfortunately, there's a culture in policing that leads to those sorts of outcomes that that, that leads to not to an idea. Necessarily enforcing the law but being above the law. And that's the problem we run into.
And we have people who want to police communities, but don't want to live in the communities that people leave. We have a lot of bias, and we also have an issue that exists in the military as well. And this has been docked by the FBI about, white nationalism being on the rise in the military and in law enforcement across the country.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. And I'm wondering and tell me if this doesn't make sense or does make sense, but in your role, are you given the space to engage with how. Impact and interact with your identity. In the US people are always like identity politics. This we're not going to talk about it. And it's actually everything is about our identities.
So, what you're saying is when it's not about the white identity, we're not going to talk about it. But when we bring it back to our identity as black people, then it's no, this is identity politics. And so, I'm wondering, when black men are shot, that does something to our people. And so, I, do people give you a moment to reflect or a moment to take care of yourself and your family, or are they just on you?
We need you to speak on this. We need a statement and negate to remember that you are a black man who can also be affected by what's happened.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah. So that's the thing, like so many experiences are. So easily disregarded, but I find that the fact that I'm in this position and I'm able to talk to a broader swath of people, it's less about making it personal for me, but it's more about connecting the issue to people that may not have otherwise cared or connecting the issue of people who don't have that immediate perspective.
See it as something that won't ever happen to them. And I can apply it to this issue where I've applied it to many other issues and in reverse. And that's I think that's what it means to be in this sort of role to, try to create and build those bridges across communities to create some level of understanding for people that just don't or just wouldn't otherwise understand
what a person's life may be or what a person's experiences may be or how that impacts us all. And that's the important part too, trying to its more than just building bridges is more about, it's weaving the basket, it's putting it all together.
Mungi Ngomane: So, I agree with that, but I think that building bridges and educating, Nonstop or most of the time people that, we’re constantly questioning your humanity can be exhausting.
And so, I wonder what keeps you going and in moments like that, like what sustains you?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah, it can be incredibly exhausting, but we see where we are as a result of not having those conversations. We see what happens as a result of continued dismissal and disregard of people's reality.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. And so, who would you say are the people who have inspired you may be personally and
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: politically? Yeah, politically, like my just obvious answers like Barack Obama, right? That was a very inspiring campaign even as coming into being around 2004, I was incredibly inspired for me now, I would say personally and politically.
Mungi Ngomane: And what would you say that you'd want your legacy and politics to be?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: We changed the game that we changed the conversation that we made people think differently about what it means to be in this sort of role and to even get engaged in politics because there's this idea. Of what a person should be.
There's this idea that you need a whole lot of money. There's this idea that you need to be incredibly politically connected. And in many ways, it is very true safe for a few instances. However, the fact is some of those hurdles can be overcome where people, whereas a lot of people feel like you need to be connected in the right political circles to be politically successful.
The fact is if you are. Connected with everyday people, then those political circles matter less and less. If you are not necessarily connected with one person with a million dollars, if you connect to a million people, $1, then that is a different, more sustainable in a more effective way to govern because you are carrying on the perspective of so many more individuals versus that, that small-cap of people that are self-interested
Mungi Ngomane: and also, the way things used to have clearly changed so much because of Covid, and I wanted to ask you, what have, what did 2020 and COVID-19 teach you about Wisconsin and the people, the US in general, your humanity, like is there something that stuck out to you about that time?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: It just exposed so many fishers. Already existed. The things that we already knew were problems, health, disparities, income, disparities vulnerability in communities but also the anti-science rhetoric seriously. So, the people that like, just deny that this that the virus existed in the first place, and these are the same people that deny climate change.
The same people deny that we have a race problem in America. There's just a lot of folks that dismissed reality and fessed up like we already knew who they were, but it just became exposed to a much higher degree.
Mungi Ngomane: Do you have some advice that you could share on, how to deal with those people, but then also, someone that looks like you that is trying to get into politics today?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Yeah. A lot of times. The people are like brick walls, right? You're not necessarily going to get through but if you can get around and get to other people, especially before the disinformation and misinformation starts to spread, I think that you can at least move closer to better outcomes.
And for people who are interested in politics and interest in government, I always tell people to work on a campaign before they decide to run for office because there are so many things that you just won't ever recognize. There are so many seriously like you just wouldn't know. I know people who theoretically could have been great candidates, but had no, had no experience of what it meant to actually run a campaign.
And it is a different world. You see the snapshots on TV or social media. You think he just put out a couple of tweaks and that's going to get like
Mungi Ngomane: the west wing, everyone's like, okay. It's like the West Wing
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: it's like the west wing. But like this day and aged people say, oh yeah, you give one speech and then you're going to win the election.
All right. Or do you think you're just going to go viral? Like people like made into their, every mobile is going to be full of viral content. That's not the reality. Some people look up and hit the jackpot, but that's what it is. It's a jackpot in the lottery. If you want to go at it that way, the reality is most people don't become successful in politics based off on, one speech or one tweet.
And like even Barack Obama, like the 2004 speeches, what set him up, but it was all the work that led up to it. And it was the content of that speech. He didn't just show up. There was a reason why he was actually on the stage to even be able to deliver that speech to the DNC.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah.
I appreciate all your answers. And so now I need to ask you the two more important questions. First. What is your greatest fear for humanity?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: Climate change valid, because so much comes with that. Climate change interrupts our food systems. It, it will change the way that people, where people are able to live, which is going to lead to overcrowding in some places.
And if we can see to go down this route and also just a way of life, like it is a national security threat, people's land becomes uninhabitable. If people can't grow food, they're going to go into other places. Sometimes people don't go to places where they are welcome, which is going to lead to violence.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I didn't think about that last part. And then what would you say is your greatest hope for humanity?
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: My greatest hope is with the youth life generation. Like we, every generation seems to be more engaged in the previous and that's a good thing, a bunch of well-informed people.
Committed to justice, committed to democracy and committed to seeing us move forward and in an inclusive way to making sure that countries like the United States of America live up to their promise.
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. I'm placing all my bets on the youth. They're very smart. So, I'm putting it all on them too. Thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Lieutenant governor,
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: of course, it's been great. I really appreciate it.
Mungi Ngomane: Thank you take care.
Ltn. Governor Mandela Barnes: You take care too.
Mungi Ngomane: I hope you enjoyed this conversation today and don't forget to hit subscribe and give the show a rating and review wherever you enjoy your podcasts. Follow me at Mungi.Ngomane on Instagram. I'd love to hear from you and get your feedback on the show.
I'll be back in a week with a new episode. Thank you for listening to Everyday Ubuntu.