Ep.25: Dr. Jean Augustine | CBE, Educator & Politician | A Life of Service
This week, Mungi speaks with Dr. Jean Augustine, the first Black woman to be elected to Canada's House of Commons. They discuss Dr. Augustine's life's work consisting of service, advocacy, and activism; and she shares what her experience was like as the first Black woman MP and some of the successes she has had. They also speak about intersectionality and the loneliness that occurs when your identity is not represented. With several institutions named after her, including the Jean Augustine Centre for Young Women's Empowerment, Dr. Augustine speaks about the importance of ensuring that she is a role model for the youth and what she expects of them. The Jean Augustine Centre for Young Women's Empowerment was started in 2014 by Dr. Jean Augustine after seeing a specific need in the community to create a space where young women and girls could thrive and be supported to reach their full potential. The Centre offers virtual STEM activities — including coding, social entrepreneurship, and academic programs for girls aged 7-17.
Full Episode Transcript
Dr. Jean Augustine: This podcast is produced by The Brand is Female.
Mungi Ngomane: Hi, I'm Mungi welcome to the Everyday Ubuntu podcast.
Dr. Jean Augustine: There is an old saying to do nothing is to do something and so I prefer to do something.
Mungi Ngomane: This week. My guest is a woman with a resume, so extensive and a laundry list of awards that we could call her doctor at least seven times. Dr. Jean Augustine was the first black Canadian woman to be elected, to serve as a member of parliament in Canada's house of commons.
We discuss her purpose work as a life of service, activism, and advocacy, as well as her many achievements. And I must highlight that in her role as an MP, Dr. Augustine was responsible for introducing legislation that would be unanimously voted on to recognize black history month in Canada. She is the epitome of a black woman who keeps the doors open for others to come behind her.
Here's our conversation.
Dr. Jean Augustine, welcome to the Everyday Ubuntu podcast. I'm so excited to be speaking with.
Dr. Jean Augustine: I am excited to meet you. I've heard so much about you and that wonderful podcast. So I'm pleased to join so many people who are being on your. Yeah, I'm
Mungi Ngomane: excited for everyone to hear about all that you've done and are doing.
So the first question I'll ask you is about how our resumes are not a full explanation of who we are as a person. And I've looked at your resume and we should call you doctor, like at least seven times I've seen from your resume, but what would you say is missing from it that you think people should know about?
Dr. Jean Augustine: I think, resume just runs down everything you've done and the awards you've received and where you've been. But I think it's important for people to know that I'm a small island girl. I come from the island of Grenada that I grew up in a kind of community setting that a lot of the things that I done are doing and continue to do stem from.
The lessons that I learned way back in happy ile St. George's Grenada. Oh,
Mungi Ngomane: I like that back to the mother land and, you mentioning the work that you're doing. What do you see as your purpose?
Dr. Jean Augustine: I think and if I were to talk about what I have been doing and what my life's work has been, I would say it's a life of service, a life of activism and a life of advocacy and a life committed to.
Making life better, not only for myself, my community, but also for Canada and the world. So a lot of my attention, a lot of the things that I've done have been around the issue of social justice. How can we make it fair? How can we make things just OK? Be a diverse Canada. We just celebrated 50 years since Canada stepped out.
As a multicultural society, actually, Canada was the first country in the world to say, we are multicultural. We are multi-racial. We are multi ethnic. We are multi-religious and therefore all of our policies, procedures, and all the things that we do in the society will respond to this mosaic. Of cultures and races and people.
And so my I am committed to ensuring that we hold on to this just, and fair and diverse society. And to do that all we possibly can. To ensure that we make it good for now that we save the coming generation from going through the heartaches and the stumbles and the whatnot of the past, and to leave a track in such a way that, that almost like the bad toys past to younger people like yourselves and others to say, look, let's move forward.
Let's move on. Of course we have to know. History. We have to know the wrongs, the past wrongs in Canadian society. When I see past runs and talking about discrimination and racism and, and all the things that we had to cope with. And at the same time, we have to make sure that that when we lay this pipeline this route.
This just society, this fear society, this multicultural society in which we live.
Mungi Ngomane: And, okay. So you mentioned the, celebrating 15 years of being a multicultural nation. And I know that you were responsible for the motion that created black history month in Canada. What's, what was that effort like?
Was it difficult? I'm. I don't know why to me, it's so odd that would be happening in our lifetime, that we would have to have that effort happen. It should have been, something that had already happened, but I get that. We are a little further behind than I assume that we are
Dr. Jean Augustine: sometimes.
I think it's important to remember that African Canadians have been in Canada since 1603. The there was an expedition and on that expedition, there was one black man on that expedition who said four, two as a translator who was a navigator, et cetera. And who knew the mic, my language, and who made it easy or easier for the, these white Europeans to land in Canada.
So we know that we've been here since 1603. We know that we were enslaved on Canadian soil in 1603. We know the struggle of the United empire loyalists who brought the enslaved people with them. We know that black people were engaged in this settlement, in the building and have been making contributions to candidates in 1602.
At the same time I was an educator. I was a classroom teacher, vice principal, supervisory officer, and all the modules that I was teaching as a social studies teacher, had nothing about the black presence in this, what we call the mosaic of Canada. It didn't teach about indigenous people and it did not teach the history of.
African Canadians. And a number of times we know that we'd caught a Woodson that in the United States you would start in black history month and we will copy and things that were happening during that month. At the same time we needed. Canadian figures because we had our own Rosa parks. We have our own any field of endeavor that you can think about.
We've had African Canadians, black Canadians who have excelled, who who could be the mentors and the role models and the historical figures. And so we did not have to look to the south all of the time to get those influences. And when you think that we will hear since 1603 and it was not until.
1993, that I was elected the first black woman, the first African Canadian woman. So you talking about, it's a, the past, and it's not all that long ago. 1992. For a black woman to be elected. And so once I got to the house of commons, everything else that I did was the first one ever.
I sat in the speaker's chair. It was the first black woman to hold that role. I was secretary of state. I was ministered was the first black woman, the first one. So again, it shows how new the African Canadian presence we were here. We were contributing, we were part of, but we did not have a history highlighted.
And so in 1993, when the opportunity presented itself as a member of the Canadian parliament, I put forward the motion. And it was not an easy time to put forward a motion. 19 3 93, 94 95. We were talking about trade issues, softwood lumber, ice cream and yoga and bonesless beed and we had a house that was very much.
Focus on debt and deficit. And so here is Augustine coming up talking about social issues, about the presence of black people. I got the votes and I got you nine and Musk and said, but it was an uphill, what's that like you put it, we'll put it again and you try to convince some people and you try not to let the Azure provocative.
But even though with questions so you want February, who's going to want March. Oh, so you want black history month?
Mungi Ngomane: Why don't we have white history?
Dr. Jean Augustine: And but in any case, and then those remember 1994, we did not have social media like you have right now. And so it was a matter of, killing a lot of trees, writing the motion and ensuring that all 300 and something members knew exactly what I was doing and that I was asking for their support, but we did an nounce in 1995.
Past and the, since then we've been celebrating black history month in Canada.
Mungi Ngomane: Thank goodness. Cause I spoke to two, I can't remember who it was, but I spoke to a Canadian woman and I remember her saying, yeah, our history books told us all about, black Americans, but. But I'm a black Canadian, like Shirley, my people have some, something that could be going in these books as
Dr. Jean Augustine: well.
We still find that black history month, I'm invited to speak all over, corporate Canada in churches and in schools. And, in, in every foreign that you can think about at the same time, sometimes I walk into a room. And the room as all these pictures are wrong, then they have Martin Luther king, Malcolm X, Rosa, and on.
And I would say folks, this is back in three months in Canada.
We had someone even before it was apart. We know have her another $10 bill. We have had, the Oscar Peterson we've had, so many names and it's not that I am diminishing any, no, not at all the American thing, but I think that it's important for our young sons and daughters growing up in Canada, know that history.
Can find the role models can find the mentoring. And this is why I do whole series of things like scholarships and awards and I focus and I chair, a research chair in education at the York university to tell the story, didn't do the research, the desegregated data to show us who we are in Canadian society and also to make our presence.
I'm so very pleased right now. We just came through a federal election and we had any number of African Canadians who put their names. When I was putting my name forward. And so I am out there and encouraging through something. So an organization, because operation black vote Canada and encouraging blacks, not only to put their names forward to put themselves forward, but how they could be supportive of other African Canadians.
Who are getting into the arena. I just spoke to a group of young women who are going to be running in the municipal in municipal politics. And it's very, it's great for that because it's closer to home. It's closer. The issues are closer to to community. And so I, my research that's these days is to make sure that we have the critical mass.
Of young people, critical mass of black people of African Canadians who would put themselves forward to be in every aspect in every place in Canadian society, in the boardrooms of the nation, as managers, as directors, as ministers of the Krung, it's such true because. The people we have the skills we have, the talent we have the ability to sell literally.
And so we have to find those allies in those places would work with us to ensure that we are prepared that to take all or place in the, in Canadian society. And
Mungi Ngomane: I, hearing what you said, I want to return to you being the first African Canadian female MP. Did you want to be an MP when you were younger?
What sort of led to you putting your name forward and becoming an MP?
Dr. Jean Augustine: No, that was not in my, you say, three years from now, five years from now, when I become an old lady, I would, no, I did not have that in my resume. I did not have that in my. As I said, my path was service and advocacy.
Do what you can to help the community get engaged and involved with community efforts. Because when I first came here around the 1960, early 1960, we had no charter of rights and freedom. We had no landlord and tenant act. We did not have black faces reading the news. And then the whole situation was completely different.
And so I. Became an advocate with others pushing for. Those places where we ought to be in the society, especially in the education system where a lot of our young people at the time were being channeled into courses that we're not leading into professional in avenue. And organizing and helping to organize parents to understand the system and to get engaged in the system.
And we still have that as a struggle, just getting parents get engaged, go to the school, talk to the teachers provide information, et cetera. And so again, that advocacy. And I think that was a classroom teacher. I saw what was happening around me. I was a very good teacher. At the same time I watched others, especially men being called in for vice principal and principals position.
I saw what was happening in the system in terms of our inability to make progress of the ladder. And as I became engaged and I became involved in on boards and in different things in the society, what I recognized very soon. Especially when I was head of the all of the public housing portfolios in the city of Toronto, it was called at the time Metro Toronto housing authority.
And I realize the changes could not be made in people's lives unless there were legislated. There were lots of things that should and could happen, but they needed the legislation. They needed binding regulations to make certain things happen. And that was when it started clicking around that the political arena was an important one for us as community.
And that we were discomforted because we were not voting in the numbers that we should, we were not. Funding or putting donors to campaigns and all of that stuff. So our community was more less, neglected in that point in timee. So it was a matter of pushing. So when I was asked and I was asked by all the political parties to run I said no.
And I said no. And then no, for simply the simple reason that politicians were not well thought of. They will corrupt. They will all the names that you can think about dishonest they were whatever. And I felt that was not me. And I didn't want to be engaged in in this I felt I was behind the scenes kind of person advisor.
I can write, I can strategize, I can organize, but I didn't see myself on the front line. And when I did say, yes, Then when I looked around it was just me right across this country. I won and I won, but with big numbers against the, the candidate behind me and. And got to Ottawa.
So it was one of those things that happened as a result of my activism, my involvement by engagement, and then answering the question when it, when I was really pushed someone said, well if you don't want to run, how can you go out there asking other people to do it with your qualification and your engagement and your ability to bring people together?
You are saying no. Then tell us who thought about that and this. So it was not a path that I had set out for myself, but it was a path that I embraced once I got there and recognize the responsibility and recognize the importance. But, when they it's important to say that every single black person in Canada from coast to coast felt that they had sent me to
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah, I bet they did. I spoke to David Lammy and MP in the UK. About, w hat it's like to be the first and all these situations. And we talked about how a lot of the times we don't think about how lonely it is, because we're always thinking about oh, you're the first, you're amazing.
But I'm always wondering is, what is that experience like? It can be lonely to be the only one in the first one to have done something.
Dr. Jean Augustine: Yes, it is. It is a lonely spot because you turn around these days, we talk about allies, right? The word allies, who are the allies. And so I had to quickly, we didn't use the word allies at the time, but I looked around to see was my friend who was my supporter, who would, when I get up and say something would second, we're not bring up issues about black community and black communities in Canada.
Who can I look around the table who would support what it is that I'm seeing? And oftentimes there is silence because people seem not to know at the time, how to respond at the same time. It was clear to everybody that I was a black woman. I never left that behind. I was a black woman with concerns about the situation of black Canadians and black people in general.
And so as minister and secretary of state, I had some great opportunities to travel throughout Africa, throughout the Caribbean, throughout Europe, on behalf of the government of Canada at the participant. In a very open and very transparent and very supportive by the supported by the government to do different things.
And so I'm happy that I had that opportunity and we were able to break several barriers that to put on the table. I was the first woman. I was the first Canadian woman. I was the first black woman to change. And all, you see the conference in Paris. Wow. And I can go on and talk about so many of those things that I had the opportunity and notice how I delineate, because I talk about intersectionality, all of the talking, I often times I was at the intersection of being a black Canadian woman, a black Canadian, an immigrant woman, et cetera.
And you can't leave that
Mungi Ngomane: behind, all of those identities always with you. Yeah. No, and I appreciate that. Cause I think people don't always think about that. They'll ask you a question and you're like if I'm answering this as just a woman, this, it changes because the way this affects white women is very different than how it affects me.
Can we do like me to answer the question? Yes.
Dr. Jean Augustine: And this is exactly what I always put on. We've made advances really great advances in this country for women, but if you are to break it down, you'd see for white women and in so many instances, women of color, black woman. Women are for, gender identify.
We have to always come behind the .
Mungi Ngomane: Yeah. Instead of the, if we included everyone, then we'd all be doing really well. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of women, I know that you have the Jean Augustine center for young women's empowerment that started in 2014. And I wonder if you could tell us about the mission.
Dr. Jean Augustine: It was my interest. It has always been my interest in young women to ensure that they reach their full potential, that they give them every opportunity that they could, that is available within the society for them. And so when I was running as a member of parliament, I, as an educator, I saw the situation of young women.
Especially, those were marginalized or come from, socioeconomic difficult situating families, et cetera, et cetera. And I knew that and I can see the spirit in them. I can see myself when I was growing up in happy healing. So many of those young women, and I know given an opportunity. That they can reach their full potential.
And then when you look at things, the UN saying, working towards gender parity by the year 20, 26, and you keep saying, Ooh, why are we waiting? Where are we preparing? And how are we preparing them to reach their full potential? And so the notion of let's deal with let's help. Let's empower.
Let's provide opportunities. Let's have them hear about careers. Let's give them some soft skills. Let's look at stem and steam programs that can help them to be comfortable with mathematics and let's do it in an environment that is safe. And an environment that is empowering and in an environment where they're not competing, for marks or for whatever else.
And so we started the, I started the center with some. And some funding. And we started with the young woman it's seven to 17 because I started the first few years before that I had the teenagers and I jokingly say, I just wasn't prepared for the teenagers. You have to have counseling service, they need money, they need all that stuff.
And oftentimes you think you're empowering them and then you give this lovely talk and then they say, goodnight, this is Augustine. And you watch a look outside the door and you see a boyfriend waiting. So I felt that was not empowering. And and so we went to it's 70. And when you start very early with young girls and you start very early, you see them coming in with a head down you see them coming in, unsure of themselves.
You see them coming in not too sure as to what the future holds for them. And then a year later you see them. And you see the development, you realize that what you're doing is something that would help with is helping to empower them something that is helping them to move as girls to understand their role in the society.
And to understand that there is nothing that they cannot do. And so this issue of traditional and non-traditional jobs or places, et cetera, we. We say to the girls, there's nothing you cannot do.
Mungi Ngomane: And, saying to the girls, there's nothing, you can not do it when I first, we weren't recording.
I asked how you were, and we were both very honest about, these are still difficult times. And so I wonder where you get the courage and the determination to do all that you were doing and what sort of keeps you going and difficult moments?
Dr. Jean Augustine: Oh, what keeps me going is really the hope.
That we can make a difference. And there was an old saying to do nothing is to do something. So I prefer to do some thing and there's also the old story of the beach, all these things being watched, washed up on the beach. And then this man is walking along and he picks up one and he throws it back in the in the water.
And someone says to hime. Hey, look, how many around the breed, each one, what are you? What are you doing? You can't clean up. And he says, but this one that I've picked up. This one at have thrown back in the water. At least I say one and so the general idea is let's see what we can do to ensure that these young women find the mentors know about the world of careers.
know About the world of work. Know about partnerships and know about business and entrepreneurial activities and know the importance of community and know how to ask the question. Around what can I do? And so I feel really empowered as I see the young girls year after year blossoming into really interesting young people who seem to know what the future holds also know their history reminded of their history.
And they're reminded of the fact that they too can pass the baton. Once they've caught it, pass the Baton to others who are on their way. So I'm always very positive about the things that can happen. And also in my own life, I do the same thing. Just not focused on the negativity, not focus on those who would be
and people who are doing things. I want to do things, I just turned 84. And well happy birthday and so it's a matter of saying, what can I do and how can I do it? What can I help? And who can I help and ensuring that I do the mentoring and ensuring that also role model some of the things that I expect of feel.
Mungi Ngomane: I imagine that you are role modeling it amazingly, and that you're, an inspiration to many of them. And who would you say are the people that have inspired you?
Dr. Jean Augustine: I, again, I'm doing this and coaching, that is looking back and that is, I grew up with a grandmother, an old lady who was, she was not schooled.
She didn't have university degrees. Like she did not. I don't think she went past what in Grenada would've been called standard too, but she was a woman who was schooled. In the school of hard knocks, she had sense. She had she knew the importance of education believed in education and made sure that everybody, every young person around her was always given the stay in school.
What do you need for school? How can I help you for school? And who thought who said way before your Obama. Yes, you can. Yes, you can.
Mungi Ngomane: I love that. I love that. And what is your greatest fear for humanity?
Dr. Jean Augustine: My greatest fear is the fact that we are at the point right now, where we don't show love for each other and understanding of each other.
And so that's my greatest fear. We are missing the humanity that we need to see in each other. And that we go after those things are the, not the important things in life. And I think if anything taught us and it's, if we taught anything, the pandemic, the fact that we had to isolate the situation that came up as a result of Georgia Floyd and the black lives matter, the essential workers that we had to stare at because we were able to stay home because of those essential workers and who were those essential workers?
The caregivers, those who worked in factories, those who did the packing, those who brought things to our doors and we see who those people are. And hopefully we would have learned something. We would have learned something from that and that we would be more compassionate and we would be more respected.
More diverse and more inclusive because around here in Canada, all we talking about no is diversity and inclusion and looking at our corporate bodies and looking at government structures and looking at ourselves to ensure that as we look around the room, we see everybody included. And that as we plan whatever we planning programs, et cetera, et cetera, that we do this with diversity.
As out mark,
Mungi Ngomane: Speaking of what you said of the essential workers when this was all happening, my mom said something that I think is still a bit true to be sadly, but she said, we have all these essential workers, but we haven't figured out how to treat them as essential humans.
And it's, yeah. I don't know if we're there yet, but you, in your answer, you answered this, but I do want to ask you, what is your greatest hope for humans?
Dr. Jean Augustine: My greatest hope is that we would take. All the science and all the things that show us. We are now in this talking about climate and the influence of climate and what will happen to small nations and countries with wide coastlines, et cetera.
When we see forest fires and all these fires, we see burning. When we see floods and all these. Signaling into us, melting of glaciers et cetera. We realize this is important for us to focus on those things that affect the planet. And therefore not only will affect our lives would affect the lives of everybody on the planet.
Absolutely.
Mungi Ngomane: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It was so lovely to speak with you.
Dr. Jean Augustine: But thank you so much and all the very best to you.
Mungi Ngomane: I hope you enjoyed this conversation today and don't forget to hit subscribe and give the show a rating and review wherever you enjoy your podcasts. Follow me at Mungi dot on Instagram.
I'd love to hear from you and get your feedback on the show. I'll be back in a week with a new episode. Thank you for listening to Everyday Ubuntu.
Dr. Jean Augustine: Thank you so much for listening to a podcast by The Brand is Female I'm Eva Hartling. And this episode was produced by our team sound engineering by Isabel Morris research and production support.
Claire, Mick Leoni, Coke, marketing, and digital growth. Kayla Gillis and partnerships.
Mungi Ngomane: Natalie hope .